footbag.org

[Olli Savolainen (opa)]

Started a new thread for discussing this matter so that PT's Green Cup thread won't get full of it...

PT wrote about contact foul issues in Green Cup this year:

[Christopher Siebert (conan)]

Breaking the plane is one of the most unique and spectacular displays of athleticism in net. Even casual observers are impressed by it. Big crowds always cheer when there is a joust. Many of the most memorable footbag net photos involve breaking the plane. We even have a term for a spike that is killed from your opponent's side of the net into the net, the "ayatollah".

Why even consider eliminating the one ability that separates us from all other net sports? We already have a foul rule in place. Plus, the referee already has the ability to card anyone exhibiting dangerous or unsportsmanlike behavior. No need for more rules.

Conan

[Olli Savolainen (opa)]

Good speech, Conan.

I have to agree with all of the points you made. We do have a foul rule and actually I've never seen or heard anyone kick opponents intentionally. And if these cases happen they should be left to referees...

Does this actually bring the good old refereeing issue into limelight? I mean, PT and Chaos have promoted the idea of players refereeing each others matches. This comes all the more important if plane rule raises concern.

All you net players our there, let us hear YOUR opinions on the matter.

[Jukka Peltola (jukka)]

Good to see some life here

What comes to plane rule, I haven´t decided my side yet. I just tried to think that how many games I´ve played (or see) that has had more than 4 body contacs over the net. I couldn´t remember any.


Jukka

[Ben Cochrane (footbinc)]

I would have to agree mostly with Conan on this one. I got poached once trying a sole push and my foot got kicked, lost my balance and went down like a sack of hammers. That day I thought the rule would be good, but I didnt know a ref could card someone. Card is good enough I would imagine to deter people from the rest of the match.

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

If I understood PT right he is concerned about injures more than anything else...but I don't think anybody is breaking the plane intentionally.

And to punish for that you already lose a point or the serve.

So, I can't figure out why Net needs that.

[Jaakko Inkinen (Jasp)]

I seems that I'm one of the few players here who want planing to be allowed.

None of the noticable footbag net accidents that I've seen(during my footbag net "career") have been caused by breaking a plane. Of course it's easy to kick opponents foot but why do you want to do that?

Also, if there's a reason to avoid setting the ball near the net -the reason would be the defending player's foot- it won't be done. That makes "killer-striking" harder and defending easier. This leads to longer rallies.

Roughly my point is that if you are scared of the defender, don't go so close to the net. Of course all aggressive action should bring a penalty.

[Jani Lirkki (janili)]

No Jaakko, you are not alone. Personally I think that trying to avoid net plane fouls has ruined approximately 30 percent of the fun of playing footbag net. I am still somehow confused when I don't know whether I should try to block or just wait when the opponent is attacking. Air battles is the one thing that people want to see when watching footbag net games. They are something that makes net a little bit "extreme". And in extreme sports accidents may always happen. I accept this fact.

As PT wrote, kicking someone on the other side does not take much skill. But I think kicking the ball on opponents side higher than the opponent without a contact takes much skill (long legs will help too ).

I respect the current rules and losing a point or the serve is good enough punishment. I am happy with the rules and increasing penalties is somehow overreacting behaviour. I have never seen such aggressive player who would intentionally try to injure the opponent. If such players some day will appear, they don't belong to the net court. They should get warnings and be banned from competitions for some period.

[P.T. Lovern (ptlovern)]

Hey guys real swamped with work and the Green Cup which you won't want to miss!

A quick post from me to clear up the air.

My views are this

Breaking the plane, fun but dangerous. I used to love it when I first started, and still do it since I can in matches legally. After my knee surgery, I saw the light, 5 months of rehab and a thousand dollar plane ticket almost came crashing down on me when Andy Wollf cracked me in a pool match without a referee. We need to protect our players! We are a small group.

As I developed as a player over the last ten years, I realized controlling the bag and pounding it down legally from my own side was the safest most effective way to win matches. I am very influenced from playing and learning takraw. Shots like Aytolla or the infamous fictional rabii grew less interesting to me. Hitting a real sunback or frontback or even roll spike or toe flip on your side takes way more skill then a huge stataff on your opponents side.

You will all see the light cause your game over the net will only take you so far. In real matches people draw contact fouls with a side block or scuff. I hesistantly do it all the time in tournaments. Just because I need to protect my side.

Breaking the plane used to happen in Takraw and they banned it too. After 30 or so years. Their best player got cracked on a roll spike and never played again. Nothing extreme about that, would there be, if Manu was laying on the court with a broken leg after a roll spike.

As we develop our rules will need to follow, the history of takraw is written different, but we will have to follow some of their steps.

Time will show this to be true. Like Darth Vader said " IT IS YOUR DESTINY CROSS TO THE DARK SIDE"

Ok that was a little much I will post more soon I gotta run.

We want to protect players on their own side that is why we are moving to up the penalties or at least define the cards and cautions. Bad things do happen when the rules permit it.

Come to the Cup we are going to have a blast!

[Ben Cochrane (footbinc)]

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

OK PT, I see what you mean. Protecting players is very critical, but tell me the following:

playing against good players was very difficult and now will be even more. trying to block some of the spikes used to be the only way to stop them. now what? how people gonna try to block with this new plane rule?

roll spike by Manu or a mousetrap or sunback from up, for example, are very unlikely to dig, but may be blocked according to the rules!

but who is going to try a block when he can be thrown out of competition if he occasionally goes couple mms wrong???

and then: big difference if it is inyentional or it's not. for intentional the player should be punished with cards and even moved out of the competition faster than 4 times or four players killed by your scale. if it's not intentional: why losing a point is not enough?!

[Aleš Pelko (alespelko)]

This is just a inferiority complex of small people. let us play the game!

[David Bernard (npr4life)]

In over 10 years of jousting with honor, less then .0000000001 % of all injuries i have seen involving this game have anything to do with "crossing the plane."

Get over it. Injuries is a weak argument imo man. I go againt people that out weigh me by 50-100# all the time and have no issues. If you can't stand the heat of the mile high stadium, don't come in the kitchen.

Dr. Flyhigh.

NPR

JOUST WITH HONOR BISHES

[David Bernard (npr4life)]

Do you feel safe from being hat-tricked blockecd now Manu??



Dr. Flyhigh

[Emmanuel Bouchard (manu)]

Aint afraid of a proctologist! Dr flyby...