footbag.org

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

my question comes out of the following reason: here in Russia we have some number of players who are doing it for pretty long time (5, 6 years is long for us), but the growth of new players is really slow and , you are right, old guys are leaving with time.

We tried to analize what's going on and came to a conclusion that new people don't appear, cause there is little promotion and old guys leave, cause they don't know where to move on and what for to train so hard. I was doing professional sport before and we were training hard, cause we knew that if we get the skills to win will have some fame, money and all that. In footbag, at least in Russia, you win number of tournaments and like 10 people will say "nice job" and that's it. So, only real fanatiks are doing that finally.

Different people in Russia try to solve this out in number of different ways, but here it's much harder. While we always had a feeling that in the States everybody knows at least hackysack and you just have to attract more people and money. Of course, you need some structure as an organisred tour (ATP) or championship(INDICAR) or league (NHL, NBA) to attract all that plus TV and newspapers, etc. This gives both the promotion for the new people and "intrest" for the pros.
That was why I was asking.

I feel pretty bad that it was previously ignored

Yhanx Allan, I hope I'll have an answer now.

[Tina Lewis (tinalewis)]

The quick answer to the promotion issue is money/sponsorship and time.
A little history - The World Footbag Association worked very hard for a long time to get sponsors for footbag and for several years Coors Beer sponsored a Regional Series throughout the US. Bruce Guettich could probably give details about why that stopped but it was nice. The WFA is a "for profit" company that does tremendous work in promoting footbag and its a business. The beginnings of IFPA started when the top players began to motivate to move Worlds from Golden and have a non-profit player organization. So now the task of getting sponsors falls to the IFPA and local clubs and tournament organizers- (the players). In its rather short existence IFPA has kept footbag.org going and made sure that Worlds moved around the US and now the World! There is a lot to be done but those have been the big priorities. Chris Ott the marketing director has been working on ideas and talking with consultants about how we can get some corporate sponsorship and get funding for a budget big enough to do more! We are all volunteers and have jobs and families so that hinders most of our abilities to do all that we would like. We hope to get to the point where we have a budget to hire people to work full time on getting sponsorships, keeping the website happy, etc. It is more of a long range thing. Any ideas, input or time anyone has to offer and to input is more than welcome!! Especially ideas about sponsors, etc. we could approach (especially for an International type tour). IFPA is the players - its the membership. (Hi to Julia too!) Tina

[Roman Gornitsky (eR-mine)]

2chezl: first of all, i'd like you not to talk "here in russia". just say "here in moscow". different cities have different situations with net. and i think, that i know the reason, why you don't have new players. when i came to moscow, i tryed to contact some net players. and none new anything about trainings. i even thought, that you don't train at all... otherwise, every freestyler in moscow knows when and where he will kick again.

that sucks, man! you don't need federations|organizations|leagues|associations... the thing you really need is named "community". players just have to see each other at least once a week! we've got community here, in saint-petersburg and we have a lot of people, that come just to kick the bag over the net and have fun. we've got 2 new teams and they become more and more kickassable from day to day. you will see everything in october.

ps: "federation" isn't equal to "community".

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

[Tina Lewis (tinalewis)]

Roman's comment goes back to the original issue - "new players" which the "Net Promotion" branched off from. The Point is a good one. If you have a regular time and place to play - people will know when and where to show up. That encourages more people - on a club level it works great to have a regular club kick time - posted on the Club page at footbag.org and then show up. Last weekend we got the word out in TX and a bunch of net and freestylers showed up for a fun one day event in Dallas ( to kick with Hall of Famer Mag Hughes - we had lots of old and new net players on the court all day. The Austin tournament is pretty low key and though sponsors and money would be great - the lower key aspect is good for new players - they are less reluctant to get on a net court and try to play. Set up some nets and see what happens. Tina

[Scott Davidson (enlightener)]

As a tournament director, how am I supposed to promote an event that I can't even get equipment for? A decent net set and even a decent net bag are hard to come by, and expensive. To top it off, no one agrees on what a good net bag is, what good net shoes are, and even how to build your own net set(s).

I think the equipment has to be attainable, how else will you get new players? Like it or not, how many players do you think get introduced to the sport through cheap quatamalan crocheted footbags each year?

The larger, standardized net ball idea is great. While you are at it, let's get a commercially viable net set (make it in china where the bags are being made) that can be produced in reasonabe quantities at less than "Made in USA" prices. Or make a nice net that says "FOOTBAG NET" across it when you put it up, and make public the plans for a decent "do it yourself" instructions to build your own stancions.

I am running an event this winter indoors, and we have room for 4 nets on carpet, but I can't tell you where the nets will come from. I have to go beg the (apathetic) netters in the area and *hope* they will show up with them. At the prices of the Jimmy C nets, even if they were available, I don't think the event could afford 3 sets. Last year I had room for 2 nets and the net players didn't even show up.

My point is that I can promote net better, if I could get my hands on equipment.

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

This topic turned to be absolutely different from what I was aiming at and the last answer by Steve really gave some nice minutes.
He was really ignoring my point, but is very ready to discuss clubs issue. I was aiming at you personally Steve and all American people who are ruling the sport.

No matter what Roman says in Russia we are many steps back in both number of people and skill than you in the States.

I work as a sales rep and see the best way to sell anything. The best way to sell footbag is to create smth that can really attract maximum attention. Is a guy from California following what's going on in some tournament in Monreal - NO. If there is a united league it is like one brand, like NBA. It's much easier to sell, promote, attract new people.

2enlightener: that's really bad with the price. we can get a net set for 20-30$

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

Alexander, I'm sorry, no offense intended, but I honestly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Also, can I ask that you not use abbreviations like "smth" because honestly that's not English and "chat-speak" is bad for a forum with international people who need to try to understand everything that's said in English. It's hard enough for me to read these abbreviations.

Thanks.

Steve

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

Thanks for answering, Steve. I won't use abbreviations, but can you answer on the issue still.

Isn't it better to have a united league? A fixed calendar, people who win a tournament get some fixed amount of points, then you have a champion at the end of the year. Isn't it more interesting than just single champs?

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

Alexander, I'm still not understanding you. These terms like "united league" are not terms I'm familiar with. Can you try to explain better what it is you're getting at?

In other words, what are you contrasting this with? Are you talking about the global competitive scene or are you talking about just within a given country/region? What are we doing "wrong" today that you think we should do differently?

Steve

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

OK. We have single tournaments in different cities that are not connected with each other like tennis tournaments US Open, Wimbledon(wrong spell,sorry), French Open, etc.
But in tennis they are conected in one Master Tour and when a guy wins a competition, he recieves some points and moves in qualification. Pit Sampras was winning and keeping his first place in qualification. Peolpe all over the world are following what's going on in Paris or New-York. It's more interesting and it's better for both sponsors and promotion. Isn't it?

For example you make an article about some tournament in the US and people from all over the world read it, cause they want to know is Manu still holding his first place or Yvez finally reached him. And then sponsors see that great interes and are ready to invest money.

[Roman Gornitsky (eR-mine)]

2alex: it won't work. for example, one team took part in 7 champs and has 35 points. another one attended 3 events and has 15 points. which one is better?

and it's not the only one reason against associations in footbag nowadays.

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

Right, Alexander your idea is correct, but this is something we will not do for 15-20 years. Trust me. For now we must keep our tournaments "open" because we simply don't have enough players or organizers to do it the other way. There is a middle ground which is better seeding and statistics. We are trying to do that. Please consider joining the IFPA's seeding and ranking committee so you can help define a good system for this. So far very little progress has been made on this in years since we started trying. I think you think there are more players than there are. I would be willing to bet there are as many net players in Russia as there are in all of the United States.

Steve

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

P.S. Alexander, please consider joining IFPA at all. Much less volunteering to be on a committee.

[Alexander Smirnov (chezl)]

Thank you, Steve. Now I see and I'm really shocked. We always had a feeling that there are a lot of people in the States.

Stop... But what about all that great players who came for the Worlds? Do you mean that there is nobody else?

And I don't say that tournaments should be closed, local people can take part, anybody can take part, but best guys will win anyway and stay on top of the classification.

And I'm ready to join IFPA for long time. I just have to do it and i will.

Thank you.