footbag.org

[Kenny Shults (Enforcer)]

A single's match played as best 2 out of 3 to 15 points typically lasts under an hour even if it goes to 3 games. I think that this takes away from the potential drama and excitement you would see in a longer match.

Through pretty much all of the 80's, net events at Worlds used a double elimination format. In this format, the winner of the winner's bracket meets the winner of the loser's bracket in the final. The loser's bracket finalist has to beat the winner's bracket finalist in two matches in order to win. The loser's bracket finalist forced a second complete match in many of the World Championships in the 80's in both singles and doubles. These matches were some of the most memorable ever played.

Due to scheduling constraints, the format changed to a single game to 15 for the second match until the format ultimately shifted to single elimination as it is now. With the elimination of golf and consecutive kick events from Worlds, there should be enough schedule flexibility to go 3 out of 5 in the net finals.

[John Leys (jleys)]

I agree with Kenny in theory. The finals matches are often the most fun to watch and always have the biggest crowds. But is too much to ask any competitor to have to compete in three finals matches on the same day. Players would risk injury to play that much in such a short amount of time. We would need to schedule one of the finals on Saturday (say open and womens singles). This would require either (1) more matches to be played on one of the other days; (2) the elimination of the rest day; (3) the elimination of pool play (i.e . qualifications)and the reliance on some sort of seeding system, or (4) a bye in the pools for the top seeds. I see (3) as the longterm choice. A combination of (1) and/or (2) could work for now. See you on the singles court - Johnny #4

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

Honestly, in the current state of skill level of the net game, I'd be happier if finals matches in net were just one game to 11. It's been laborious watching the only good players mop up the floor with the weaker second-best at most tournaments (Worlds excluded). I'd almost rather see us cancel net altogether and just have the net players go straight to the Beer Bracket after the first pools are over, since that's pretty much what they do anyway.

Steve

[John Leys (jleys)]

I think you are wrong. The best matches are always at the end of the tournament. If anything the pool play should be shortened to one game. Talk about meaningless games! The top players just serve right through pool play and are not challenged until single elimination starts. I competed at three tournaments this season including Worlds. The toughest match I played at each was either in the finals or the match I lost in single elim. ... As far as the beer brackets go - not all of us are pounding Pilsner the night before! I didn't see any of the Worlds finalists drinking the night before. I had my last beer on Saturday. Ask Yves or Manu how much they had to drink. For serious competitors, the ones who truly train and win, the beer brackets don't start until you are out. ... Your point is taken about the competition difference at smaller tournaments. At Euros PT and I were pretty much garanteed to win. But that didn't stop our friends the Germans from playing hard. And don't tell me that wasn't an interesting match! The players and spectators over there had cheers going and everything. The best matches are the finals matches... These should always be the highlighted ones!

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

John, there are like 3 teams that play footbag net seriously and anywhere near the levels net was played at 5 years ago. It's kind of boring to watch you guys compete over and over and over again; you and PT beat david and whoever he's playing with, david and whoever he's whoring around with beats you and PT. Manu and whoever he's playing with beat you and PT, in fact Manu and whoever he plays with generally speaking beat you all. It gets boring. BORING. I think we have it backwards. We only have 6 minutes of glory for the best freestylers, where the center of our sport lies, while we give at least 150 spotlighted minutes to the same three net players.

But if you really need me to spell it out for you, I'm just ribbing you. Call me the instigator.

Steve

[Olli Savolainen (opa)]

Steve. You mess with John, you mess with the Finns!

I may never be playing the finals matches myself, but I do think that highlighting the finals would be a good idea. Those matches are the most interesting ones in a tournament anyway, or at least should be if the system works all right. However, I don't think the pool play should be shortened too much either. Because it is practically the only chance for new players to play against the best. Too heavy a reliance on seeding systems is not fair if only something like top 8 teams or players get ranking points. This way it is basically the same whether you are the 9th or the very last. It may become impossible to ever climb up there to gain a seeding. Nevermind, this is just moaning from an average player.

The bottom line is that if moving to 3 out of 5 is good for the sport it should be done. --- Anything that is good for the sport it should be done, even minor things.

Cheers, Olli

[Grischa Tellenbach (grischa.tellenbach)]

Come on Steve, you know the European Footbag Scene.
Hence you know as good as I do that within 2-3 years, there will tonnes (YES tonnes) of European players aged between 25 and 35 who will really kick ass. At Worlds there were so many players from all over Europe who never participated in any footbag event before and who were all ready able to spike
Trust me Europe will rule over net as well as freestyle in a few years with more than just 3 teams !

G*

[Matti Pohjola (mohkale)]

[Grischa Tellenbach (grischa.tellenbach)]

Matti Pohjola (mohkale) wrote

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

Dudes..

Will you guys stop with the nationalistic banter?

It's not about U.S./Canada vs. Europe! If that cranks you up, then great. But keep it to yourself. It's about each individual improving himself.

And that's where the problem lies.

Steve

[Grischa Tellenbach (grischa.tellenbach)]

As a matter of fact US-Canada was ruling over footbag free+net.
Now European players are kick-ass in freestyle.
But net is still dominated by a few North-Americain players.
Nevertheless footbag net is growing in Europe. I never heared about South-Americain, Africain or Australian net players, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Steve, you were the one complaining about those few North-Americain guys catching all the attention in net competition. You more or less said that is was boring or at least getting boring.
Hence, if players are improving in one place on earth in the long run the level of play will increase everywhere and we will have different high-skilled players.
So the out-come will be more interesting games between new players and footbaggers and other spectators around the world will enjoy high-quality net games.
But, if players keep the attitude that North-Americain players are too good and they don't even try to practice, nothing will happen Manu and the other will get too old to play at one point and net will die !

G*

PS : I don't care where you from, the color of your hair or what ever. I like the game - that's why I have been kicking for the last 13 years.

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

Grischa, stop it! You don't even see how much of a Nazi you are.

I don't talk about where players are from. I talk about the players themselves.

This has to stop.

Steve

[Christopher Siebert (conan)]

Steve has a point about longer matches just prolonging the pain of an uneven match. But when will we stop bemoaning the lack of talent in singles net and recognize the greatness of Manu? This guy has won six World titles in a row against six different opponents! And every opponent has been a champion in his own right.

But Steve you are wrong to discourage nationalism in footbag. It is a powerful motivator and helps bring legitimacy to the sport. How many people in the US see footbag, at any level, as "personal improvement"? Not enough, that's for sure. Conflict (as is painfully obvious) we understand and appreciate.

Conan

[Roman Gornitsky (eR-mine)]

i think, this topic can be discussed forever if none tries the new system. in my opinion, it is quite interesting and it worth trying. and after that we can say if a "3 out of 5" is a good idea. with no discussion =) .

[Steve Goldberg (brat)]

3 out of 5 is a good idea. At the same time, we should bring back 15-minute freestyle routines. It's a pity that the crowd only gets to watch the best freestyler play for 2 minutes.

Steve