footbag.org

[Neil Green (feyn)]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have any estimates on the range of speeds you get on a Footbag Net serve? Also, does anyone know how different serving techniques match up to different speed ranges? Finally, does anyone have any estimates on the speed ranges you can expect at novice, intermediate, and open levels?

Thanks,
Neil

[Christopher Siebert (conan)]

A good open-level serve will roughly be the equivalent of someone standing on the baseline and throwing that bag at you. But speed is not everything in footbag. Shanky dink serves and really any well-placed serve can be just as difficult to receive as a power serve. Just work on developing your own style, and learn how to place it anywhere you want it.

Conan

[Neil Green (feyn)]

Thanks for the reply Chris.

My reason for wanting to know the speed of a Footbag serve is because I'm getting desperate down here to improve my game, and it occurs to me that receiving serves is one aspect of the game I can't improve on my own. I can practice serving on my own, and I plan on following your advice on placement to improve my game, but that sill leaves receiving.

Even having someone available to throw the hack at me for half an hour three times a week is asking a lot (talk about a boring job), so I'm exploring mechanical alternatives. That said, I wanted to know how slow was too slow, and how fast was to fast for a machine to launch a bag at me.

If anyone has footage of a Footbag net serve, all we need to know is how long (in milliseconds) it takes for the bag to leave the foot and cross the plane of the net. Knowing that the server is approximately 22 feet from the net we can calculate how fast it was moving.

But since you brought it up Chris, I'd like to run this by you:

Receiving a Footbag net serve has 5 factors to consider in descending order of importance:

1. Placement
2. Speed
3. Shoe (shape, rigidity, texture)
4. Angle
5. Bag (texture, weight, size, rigidity)
6. Spin

My rational is:

1. Placement: If you put it some place I can't get to it (like, ahem, my left leg) nothing else matters.

2. Speed: If it comes too fast, I can't control it.

3. Shoe: Uneven surfaces = shank (This is affected by speed and the Bag). Also, how much the shoe/socks absorb the energy of the serve (a good reason for double socking?) However, low speeds can still be controlled on an uneven shoe - so I figured this comes after speed.

4. Angle: The flatter the angle, the more speed it kept from the original serve AND the harder it is to control (especially if you've only been practicing consecutives!)

5. Bag: Softer bag, more energy can be absorbed through the bag deformation, therefore the easier it is to receive (softer bag also makes it harder to crank up the speed)

6. Spin: This is hard to place - I've not played enough to know where this should go. A high spin would be a problem at low speeds - but how could you put a high spin on a serve with low speed? Can a Footbag be sliced with a shoe? An argument can be made that more speed kills the effect of spin as the impact halts the rotation, or that speed enhances as it spins more quickly with more speed. The right answer is probably both in different situations.

What do you think? Are these all the factors? Are they prioritized correctly?

-- Neil

[Robert Lavigne (Bob)]

I have some video work to do for a cable show, so I will review this for you. But since serves vary widely, it won't help you train. To make a mechanical device to serve yourself, it's simple, as long as the bag makes it all the way to you from the backline, it's hard enough. if it goes out, too hard.

This is not like baseball, where the speed is relevant because the point of contact isalways at the same distance from the pitcher. Some servers stand way behind the line, like Allan Peterson, and therefore serve much harder without the bag going out.

So unless you make your "machine" higher than the net, allowing for unlimited velocity, just getting it in will produce the right speed. Make sure you can make it aim at that left foot though, cause that's what your opponents are going to be looking for.

Bob
Airtime Productions

[Milan Ardalic (mile)]

Speed doesn't matter that much, putting the bag where you want it is more important. I'm more afraid of the versatile servers, who can hit it just behind the net, or on the back line, powerful serve will fool you the first time but they are predictable. I like them curved and changing direction with a lot of spin,
It would be fun if someone installed a radar (or whatever they use in tennis tournaments) at worlds to see who has most dynamite in his feet. I suppose it is around 100km/h (60mph), depending who serves it

[Jani Markkanen (janijani)]

[Milan Ardalic (mile)]

Well, I'm not a speed expert, but it sure stings when you get hit by a high spike serve, it feels like it's speeding at 100kmh. You're probably right, it aint so fast, but yesterday I got hit in my butt by a spike (weird, huh) and still have a big red reminder

[Neil Green (feyn)]

I looked at some of the older posts on this forum and found one related to serves. In it Chris Siebert says:

"As long as we are on the subject of serving, my advice is for every net player to develop a powerful spike serve. It takes a lot of work (sometimes years!) to master such a serve, and that work will make you a better player overall. "

So I'm a little confused.

There are two solo training techniques that I'm looking at, and I'm having a hard time figuring out which I should focus on:

1) Power. Just serve at the wall aiming at around the 5' mark and just keep pounding away will as much power as possible while keeping it "in bound" (gauging from the angle), which probably requires a head level or above kick.

2) Placement. This is where I'd adapt a fishing rod casting drill where I set up a bucket, go back 44' and try to serve get the bag in the bucket. This requires a very controlled touch to put it right where I'd want it so I'd be using a below the knee kick.

Now, I plan on doing both as people are saying that placement is most important, but the wall is just fun. I would also imagine that when you have two categories of serve you would be having more options in beating your opponent.

This brings me to spin. Is anyone intentionally putting spin on the ball? If so, how?


Thanks in advance for answering,
Neil

[Robert Lavigne (Bob)]

Spin is produced by hooking or slicing the ball, just like any other sport. Martin the Snake Cote is the master at spinning his high velocity serve, and I seem to remember Allen Peterson and Peter Shunny having a lot of spin in their under-serves.

/Will update on speed soon
//busy busy busy
///slash slash slash

Bob